my philosophy has always been: the company isn’t losing any money because i obtained a pirated copy of sofware X or audio cd Y…

i wasn’t going to buy it anyway!

Microsoft is an old behind the times dying company, mired in 19th Century corporate beliefs. We will see real computer programs coming from other sources more and more. As their monopoly fades, and Linux based materials permeate the computing world, much improvement will be seen, notably, fewer and fewer “Blue screens of Death” and frozen, overloaded hard drives that need servicing. Most innovation will come from India, China and Europe, who do not subscribe to Microsoft’s “Programming with strings attached” methodology and prefer systems like Ubuntu, in “open Source” format. The tax Microsoft wished to impose on the world of computing will not be tolerated by third world people – they simply cannot afford it!

Er… I agree, Uncle B, but this article isn’t about Microsoft. It’s about DRM. If it’s about any company, it’s about EA.

Kieth has is in the bag. You can’t lose something you never had. ALL of these corporations (EA and M$ included) need to remember that their hold on us is fragile at BEST. The right voice with the right words and nothing exists anymore but ash. Yes I am talking about a violent uprising against evil capitalist corporate rich people. My voice doesn’t work…I have tried. Someone will wake the masses up someday. This isn’t an IF its a WHEN. It’s not far off now.

@Uncle B: I completely disagree. How is Microsoft dying? Yes, Windows isn’t without errors, but it still beats the pants off the alternatives, IMO. Linux users are just too anti-MS to admit Windows has its perks. Anyway, back (or more) on topic, Microsoft offers many deals for students, and in fact, much of their software is available *free* and *legal* through MSDNAA. And their software isn’t crippled with DRM either, maybe a little product key at best. Microsoft does things RIGHT, even if there are little nuisances here and there, no one’s perfect.

Adobe is just plain over-priced. I wonder if they’re trying to compensate for piracy or they realize they can get away with it because they’re the industry standard. In fact, they probably don’t mind the piracy because it gets the younger folk hooked on their products so that when they move up into the corporate world they have to shell out the big bucks.

I can see both sides of the story as I’m a programmer/developer myself. I guess people just need to come up with some proper hassle-free DRM, or no DRM at all. NCH seems to be doing a pretty good job. No cracks for their software, but perhaps just because they’re lesser known. Either way, developers need to lower their prices and/or offer student pricing, and make their software available for easy download if possible.

Digg: Why DRM Should Be Kicked To The Curb: hehe2.net — (Digg and comment this) http://tinyurl.com/4lj3jn

Digg: Why DRM Should Be Kicked To The Curb: hehe2.net — (Digg and comment this) http://tinyurl.com/4lj3jn

Back to old sega… to buy a game, buy a hardware.. no more duplication problems.. Or something like amazon kindle.. no interaction with a computer as far as data is concerned. Get something like a “EA hard drive” and whenever you want more games, download directly into it using 3G and then connect it to the computer for playing. As the hardware structure and architecture are concealed, hackers will not be able to hack it with their home pc.

Why DRM Should Be Kicked To The Curb (via Digg) http://tinyurl.com/4lj3jn

Continuation: The “EA hard drive” must have an OS of its own”. How to play a game, use virtual machine on your PC (or Mac or linux or Free bsd or for anything that offers one). The virtual machine will use partially, the RAM and the processing power of the host computer and the hard drive of the “EA hard drive” to store anything.

While I personally didn’t experience the whole Spore meltdown, a friend did. After going through the whole process with EA, I stand to be counted in the WTF category!

[...] alike has had to contend with; in the eighties we didn’t have torrents, but we had tape trading.read more | digg story This post has been read 1 [...]

Keith – are you saying that, if there was no way of pirating music / TV / software / games / movies, that you would never ever buy any of them? You would be a person who owned none of these things? I don’t believe that. I think it’s because they’re so freely available through nefarious means, and the creators and distributors of these materials have been painted as the bad guys so much, that people who download this stuff think that there’s no way they could be made to pay for it. That’s just not true.

Uncle B – You sound like you’re on a mission, but it’s one that doesn’t have anything to do with this article. You’re right about the POTENTIAL of the Linux operating system, assuming it keeps improving and becomes a true user-friendly competitor to Windows. That’s still a way off, and so Microsoft will continue to flourish, especially is Windows 7 is a qualitative leap forward from Vista.

Regarding the DRM issue, I agree completely that its application only serves to shoot the publishers in the foot. The people who pirate games will always pirate them (more or less), the people who buy them legally will always do so (more or less), and the DRM issue doesn’t make a bit of difference. Except that is causes users like me to flat out refuse to buy the company’s software. I won’t download a pirated version either, because if I can’t play it online then I can’t be bothered with it.

It really doesn’t bother EA whether I guy their game or not. I’m not their target demographic. I’m one of the moral-indignation, very vocal on the internet, but not a great source of income for them, minority. Much like the geeky crowd behind Snakes on a Plane and Ron Paul. There are a lot of us making a lot of noise in this room called the internet. But in reality it’s a very small room compared to the one “out there”, in the real world, where real stuff happens.

Muk – “As the hardware structure and architecture are concealed, hackers will not be able to hack it with their home pc.”

There is no “hackers will not be able to hack it” – such a concept does not exist. Look at the chipped-ness of the XBox 360, the Wii and the PS3. Someone would find a way of connecting the drive to your PC via USB, wi-fi or Bluetooth, so that pirated games can be tranferred to it, and then a way of applying a chip or a firmware patch so that these can be played.

You can’t shackle people. You have to make it an easier and better option for them to get things via the legitimate route. Be easy accessibility, freedom of use and proper pricing.

quote: ‘my philosophy has always been: the company isn’t losing any money because i obtained a pirated copy of sofware X or audio cd Y…

i wasn’t going to buy it anyway!’

This is the single most annoying argument that pirates use to justify piracy.

It’s akin to stealing a branded item of clothing from a store, and leaving behind enough money to pay for the item at cost value. ‘I can’t afford $150 for this branded item, so as long as I cover the $20 it cost them to make it, no-one loses out!’

It’s a lazy justification, and completely immoral. Creative people who create content like this throw their lives into their work, so why should someone else get that work for free just because they don’t think it’s worth the money?

Grow up. If you don’t have any intention of buying something, then accept that you can’t have it.

The ‘I wasn’t going to buy it anyway’ argument does get a bit annoying.

There is so much media around these days that it’s impossible to legally pay for all of it, so I pay for what I can, to try support those who are making the stuff I enjoy.

If I play a game and end up not liking, I can’t say that I wouldn’t have brought it anyway, cause I went to the effort of acquiring it, although the standard AU$100 pricetag on most new games does make you think before buying.

I don’t support pirating everything and preventing creators getting any cash, but I couldn’t imagine loosing the free distribution of media that has come about. There is a middleground. Maybe if stuff was reasonably priced it’d be possible to spread the money round more fairly, as it’s difficult to do with $100 lumps.

Also – DRM sucks and being anti DRM doesn’t mean being pro-piracy, it just means that you should be allowed to own the overpriced crap you payed too much money for.

Charlie is exactly right.

Keith, that philosophy may be true in your case, but lets say Spore sold there game for only $20 instead of $50 then I’d be willing to bet they would have made a hell of a lot more money. I know I would have bought it.

@Alex

First, I’m a proponent of both open-source software and good creative stuff. And I find no correlation between the “branded item of clothing from a store” and digital goods that supposedly require the innovation of a DRM system. For starters, software can be duplicated infinitely without any inherent detriment to the company who designed the software. An example, If I had 500 copies of Spore on my computer, that isn’t going to harm Maxim in and of itself. What harms the company is the potential customers that may or may not have purchased the game were it not freely available via a pirate network. What we are talking about is the protection of profits for software companies, not some superbly ethical dilemma. Also, to combat your statement about the “Creative people who create content”, they are paid salary from the start of the project. They do not suddenly lose money because a game is pirated more than it is paid for.

This is a distinction that is important to note, as the margin of profit due to the pirating of media rarely causes the investors and distributors of a game to lose money on it. In fact, when it comes to software, the only time companies lose money is when the company itself hemorrhages due to mismanagement or produces a bad product that doesn’t sell.

Lastly, in my uncorrelated series of statements, I would say that the only time someone who regularly pirates games, media, or software would buy what they were pirating, would be if they felt that the company was doing good or producing a product that inspired legal purchase. ..or, there is no other option, such as the majority of games on Steam.

Keepin it FREE baby! Yeeaaah!

Jif
http://www.privacy.es.tc

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This is a very old argument. I mean some form of anti-piracy efforts have been going on since the 80′s. Some apple and commodore disks had complex copy protection.

As for the pirates. I don’t think you can expect to get a free lunch everyday. I mean yes the creative people who create this stuff may only get “a salary”. However, a company has to have a profit to pay that salary. Also, shareholders and other stakeholders in the company use various metrics to measure the profitability of the company.

I think a middle ground is reasonable. I do not agree with DRM but I do not agree with people continuously taking what is not theirs all the. Most of the time if you want something you will have to pay for it whether it is lunch, a car, a computer, a bus ride, or a new computer program. The money has to come from somewhere. You can make money for yourself to pay for it whether it be a job, business, inheritance, etc.

Reasonable pricing and lack of DRM are the best concentration. Unfortunately, ALL piracy cannot be stopped. However, a well designed and high quality product will sell itself. Also, there are always ways to make money such was with World of Warcraft. Sure, pirate the program but do you have an account?

The way I see it, Software companies should sell people licenses to use their product on a yearly rate – say $100.00 or something. You would have the right to use their software, plus get all the tech support you needed for it. And all the updates. All for that 100.00 (or whatever they feel would be a reasonable amount per year. Student rates would even be nice…) So you would always have the latest version of the software, and the company would have a constant amount of “subscribers” using it. If you didn’t pay your yearly subscription rate, the software would be crippled. Simple as that. Since most people these days have broadband access, as long as the software talked to the makers’ computers once in a while to make sure it was a legit copy, everything would be fine. That way, if your internet went out for a week (as mine did w. Hurricane Ike), you’d still be covered. I’m not a pro at this stuff, just sharing my thoughts, so if you must flame… go ahead… I’ll be doing something else w. my time and probably won’t see it….

@keith:

That so-called “philosophy” disgusts me. If you “weren’t going to buy it”, you’re not entitled to use it.

/keith

I hate DRM as much as anybody. But I also hate the attempts to legitimize piracy as if it’s not having an effect on creative industries. In the US, most of the growing industries don’t produce a physical product. We simply won’t be able to function as a society if people don’t recognize the value of creative work.

And before you tell me “zomg the corporate gatekeepers horde all the money! The workers get scraps! We must liberate the means of production!!!” I hear you. And I generally agree. But my fellow punk/indie music lovers don’t seem to have a problem downloading their favorite DIY bands just as easily as others download Metallica’s latest sludge.

Piracy is a learned behavior, and it makes no difference how much money the creator is making. At the end of the day, pirates are going to pirate. Hell, Radiohead GAVE THEIR ALBUM AWAY, and it was still torrented in large numbers.

Both the publishers/producers and customers/consumers need to take responsibility for their contribution to this DRM nightmare. Frankly, I only expect things to get worse.

@Alex: The main flaw in your statement, “If you don’t have any intention of buying something, then accept that you can’t have it” is that you CAN have it. Not to mention, how much of the $60 you shell out for a game goes to the ‘creative people who created it’?

Anyway, DRM is just a fraction of the outdated and detrimental Intellectual Property law BS. Companies are given protection for company life + 95 years on their ‘property’, stifiling creativity and holding back innovation to increase profit margins.

The solution to DRM in gaming is simple: let it die. Instead of spending millions on SecuROM and s**t like that which still gets hacked in a matter of hours, focus on making games that are worth buying. That, and release demos, dammit. Most gamers have custom rigs that ought to ace the specs, but these general requirements are only a loose guide to what you need to play.

Now, there will always be pirates. Many of them wouldn’t buy the game anyway, so there really is no loss of sale– and therefore, no loss of profit; simply no profit gained. Others won’t buy the game due to the crippling DRM. Some will claim they are ‘trying before buying’ because no one bothers with demos anymore– some of them actually will buy the game.

StarDock has the right idea: No DRM on any of their games or software. They understand that the people who pirate their games will continue to do so, and those who buy their games will also continue to do so. Punishing legitimate customers, or trying to strong-arm players just drives them to piracy. However, you can only get updates with a registered copy of their games, and you get access to better support as well.

There isn’t a good justification for piracy. True, it’s not physical theft, but it is ‘theft of services’. If you can pay for a piece of software, or use a lesser/free alternative, you should. If not, save up.

Yes, DRM does nothing to stop pirates, and presumably costs developers a lot of money. These developers are mentally retarded, but hey – it’s still a free country. If they want to alienate their paying customers while futilely attempting to curb piracy, that’s their call. They probably slam their hands in their car doors for fun too.

The problem I have with DRM is that turns ‘purchases’ into ‘rentals’ – only at the same price. Games are still $50 – $60, only now instead of being able to play the game for as long as you own the media, you have it until the developer turns off the activation servers.

I am still playing games that were released back in 1999 and 2000. These games have CD checks, but that’s cool – I bought the game, and have the CD. Modern games? Yeah – I don’t think so.

Then, to top it off, you can no longer sell or give away the game to anyone else. There is no longer the justification of buying it at $50, and selling it for $25. Effectively, games now cost twice as much if you were used to selling your old games. If it’s going to be a rental, fine – but give me the price break.

To top it off, you had better hope your rig is reliable and future proofed. Otherwise, your ‘rental agreement’ could vary dramatically. Modern games will, at some point, quit working long before the hardware and OS stop supporting the game. Now, other pieces of software are taking this tack. You pay for a ‘perpetual’ license that is only as perpetual as the vendor wants it to be.

Essentially, I’m tired of paying full price for a time-limited rentals and demos, with the added insult of the length of the rental being dependent on the life of the PC it’s sitting on.

Keith has it nailed. Done.

Spore, nor the creature creator are on steam.

http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nosteamsporerk3.png

Stop pandering and check your facts.

I’m sorry, but it’s true. OpenOffice is not as good as Microsoft Office. I’m sick of hearing that it isn’t true. It sure is true. I’ve used OpenOffice plenty of times. I use it right now, until I get another copy of Microsoft Office. There is a lot of great free software out there, OpenOffice isn’t one of those that are better than it’s pay for alternative.

Also, yes DRM is a sad solution.

[...] why the hell are we still talking about this thing? Everyone knows that the idea of digital rights management which tries to artificially remove your [...]

[...] why the hell are we still talking about this thing? Everyone knows that the idea of digital rights management which tries to artificially remove your [...]

I’m in agreement with, Ben, Brandon, and Michael.
I believe DRM stems from the root problem that is IP. Because it is not natural, govt enforced, the market has a strange time dealing with it. The fact is the only time you own an idea is when it’s yours, still in that head of yours. Words on paper does not change that reality.

I believe the most downloaded (pirated) game ever is and and for the foreseeable future will be…. think of every gamer in Korea.

Corey mentioned paying annually to renew the software agreement. I doubt if that would have any effect. I quit using Norton Anti-Virus because they kept raising their annual rates and it was a pain in the butt. I now use Avast, which is free and am perfectly happy.
Many here talk about the developers making money. The developers ARE making money. So are the companies and shareholders. If they weren’t then they would stop producing software. They have some statistic about how much of their product is being pirated. For the sake of argument lets say that number is 10%. So they are looking at that number and trying to squeak that million dollar loss into profit by stopping the illegal copies. Of course the million dollar number is based on the established selling price (lets say $100). They will never achieve zero piracy but they might achieve higher sales and reduced piracy by lowering the price. If they could sell the same product for about $30 they might see hugely increased sales. I don’t buy many games. They are way to expensive. But I also don’t pirate them either. However if they were reasonably priced around $30, I would probably start buying them. So my point is even though they reduce the selling price, they would probably see a large increase in sales from people like me who are not currently a customer. Some of the people who pirate their product now would also be able to afford the product an begin paying for legitimate copies.
The hard core pirates will always be there. These would be the same people that claim that the companies aren’t loosing any money because they wouldn’t have bought the product anyway. The same people who find ways to pirate a soda from a vending machine. I suppose they would also claim that Coke and Pepsi aren’t loosing money from them pirating a soda because they wouldn’t have bought it anyway. So you know these types of people are just fooling themselves. The are so full of sh#t that they actually believe that line. So anyway, the pirates will always be there. Everyone (including the developers) should just accept it. Chalk it up as the price of doing business. Get rid of the DRM which would help to reduce production costs. Maybe the software companies should consider putting their product on a chip. Something that is read only and plugs into the USB port. I’m sure they could develop some type of active key that the program must pass through on its way into the USB port that would help to prevent copying the rom. Whereas copying the rom by itself would be useless unless it processes through the built-in active key.

Just one modification: There are those who pirate games because they say “I want to play the games, I dont have the money, and I know how to do it”

In response to:

“The hard core pirates will always be there. These would be the same people that claim that the companies aren’t loosing any money because they wouldn’t have bought the product anyway. The same people who find ways to pirate a soda from a vending machine. I suppose they would also claim that Coke and Pepsi aren’t loosing money from them pirating a soda because they wouldn’t have bought it anyway. So you know these types of people are just fooling themselves.”

There is a very large difference between the tangible soda and the intangible software application. Previously, I did not want to bring up this difference because it muddles the point, but I think it should be brought up now.

It takes more energy and is more detrimental to the environment to manufacture and package a cd or dvd than it is to distribute a game via a server cluster over the internet. I am quite certain that many will find this statement audacious, but pirates are more environmentally friendly than those who purchase physical copies of a game.

[...] we daarmee aan tot piraterij? Nee. We zetten wél aan tot nadenken, want de industrie maakt zichzelf op deze wijze het leven echt wel onmogelijk. Wie immers probleemloos wil spelen, [...]

Saying it’s ok to steal software since you weren’t going to buy it anyway is like saying it’s ok to steal a car since you weren’t going to buy it or couldn’t afford it but you are still driving it. Sorry but that doesn’t hold water. The old saying “software worth using is worth buying” is true.

Just because something is priced too high is not an excuse to steal it and theft certainly won’t bring down prices.

Maybe those who steal programs need to put themselves in place of the individuals who write and develop it. When it’s how you make a living and pay the bills it’s a different story when you see your product being stolen instead of bought. Piracy is theft, pure and simple.

Download a thing you like. Buy a thing you like. And Fuck the rest.

Download a thing you like. Buy a thing you like. And FUCK THE REST! Why argue?

[...] might have already read Ian’s first blog on Royal HeHe2-ness, the widely popular “Why DRM Should be Kicked to The Curb“. Personally I enjoy reading his articles, I hope you do [...]

Whatever your excuse, stealing can be justified only by flawed reasoning with few exceptions of life or death starvation and theft of food (great philosophical debate there!). Not saying I have never or would never do such a thing but to make this cause de celeb out of your right to chose piracy is kind of small minded. If you don’t like DRM, don’t buy the game or products that use DRM. Ohhh, you like the game, just not the one they are selling it so you steal to show dissatisfaction? Everyone sais “If they didn’t put DRM” as an excuse to theft, but it is not. It is everyone’s way to try and feel better about being crooks, thiefs and liars.

If you don’t like the product, you don’t buy it. Stealing it doesn’t make things better and whatever your rational it is still stealing, you are still a thief and there is no honor among thiefs.

my 2 bits

The biggest obstacle for freeware and open source software is piracy. Piracy doesn’t hurt companies like Microsoft and Adobe…it helps them.

Most of the big software companies make most of their money from the corporate world that actually pays for software…and needs people that knows how to use it.

Home users that pirate the big pricy applications learn how to use it and justify the cost to big business to keep buying it.

Stop and think about this for a minute:

If everyone that has a pirated copy of Photoshop installed on their pc uninstalled it and installed the GIMP and learned how to use it, there would be another choice to the corporate world…instead of buying Photoshop and hiring people that know how to use Photoshop, they would be able to install the GIMP for free and hire GIMP users.

But since everyone keeps pirating Photoshop, there isn’t enough GIMP users to make a decision like that a viable alternative in the corporate world.

So companies like Adobe keep making lots of money.

If every pc that had a pirated copy of Windows was formated tomorrow and had Linux installed, how many copies of Visual Studio would Microsoft sell? Less Windows users means less demand for Windows software, less people developing for Windows and less need for Visual Studio.

They need the people that pirate the software just as much as they need the paying customers, in order to dominate the world.

These big software companies became as big as they are thanks to pirates. And with their size came the ability to bully everyone.

Break the chain of these companies and their dominance by shunning their software, paid, free scaled down versions, or pirated, and you will see a new world with much better freeware and open source software and open source & freeware will dominate the world, instead.

In the end, stealing hurts you by making these big companies even bigger and stronger, and able to bully you and the corporate world, even more. You give them the whip they beat everyone with.

Yup, kick DRM to boot. Anybody that wants to remove it can do so quite easily.

Sounds like what has devoloped is a delicate eco system. It sounds plausable that the software companies are making money becuse the pirates are using software that they tell the companies they work for to buy. It’s basically how WordPerfect used to market. They sold the product very inexpesively to students. Those students would eventually get jobs and have the company purchase the software at much higher prices. I must still contend that pirating isn’t right. But it does make for an intersting argument. I wonder if any of the major software companies have ever researched that. But that still wouldn’t benefit any of the game developers. I wouldn’t think there are any companies purchasing games based on employee recommendations.

@Paul B

That’s true, but I wonder how much game companies make on the merchandising & movie rights for their games?.

I am sure Nintendo made a freaking fortune from it. There was even Mario Bros shampoo, with Revlon paying them for the right to put that name and pic of the characters on the bottle.

Even if Spore gets pirated too much, it will still be popular, and there is still the possibilities that some studio in Hollywood would pay for the movie rights. The more popular it is, pirated or not, the more likely that would be and the more money EA can demand for the rights. And then after the release of the movie will come all the toys and other crap…all generating a generous royalty licensing income for EA.

And of all the PC games out there what is the percentage of them that have merchandise or movies made for and about them? Not many at all. That form of thinking is nothing more than self justification to steal someone’s work.

@Jim:

That sounds like you just called me a thief.

I happen to earn my meager living as an independent software developer.

I am a donationware developer that supports all the software I use, whenever it is possible. I don’t steal from my fellow coders, and even pay for freeware & open source stuff. Do you?

I don’t play the big games loaded with DRM because my computer can’t handle them. I am more likely to play small casual puzzle games that are either free or cost under $15.

If there is a paypal button on the site for a free game or program, and I like it enough to keep using it more than a few times, I click that button and pay either what I think the software is worth or as much as I can afford (because some stuff is priceless).

I have even paid for software that I never downloaded or used, just because I though the project was worth supporting.

When it comes to software, I look for free & open source first, and consider payware second. If I can’t afford it and no free version that will do the same job exists, I’ll consider writing my own and maybe even release it as donationware if it’s polished enough.

Don’t make assumptions about me and call me a thief when you are probably more of a thief than I am, if you aren’t supporting everything you use…be it payware, freeware, opensource, or whatever.

straying a bit here. gimp blows. even photoshop elements ($50 if you shop around) wipes the floor with the gimp. adobe’s core products are overpriced because there is no real competition out there. they can get away with it. we all know the problems with corporate software, but what about open source software? sure there’s some good basic stuff out there. it falls apart at the power user level. the gimp is a perfect example. the developers are so wrapped up with defending the software’s shortcomings that they don’t listen to the users ideas and legit complaints. the developers like to say that the gimp isn’t photoshop, in defense. what does the gimp have that photoshop doesn’t? where’s the innovation that’s supposed to come from open source? open source is a great idea, but there are too many egos getting in the way.

Those egos also exist in payware, but I will agree that it is quite common in open source.

But the beauty of open source is that you don’t have to put up with the ego of the original developer if you have the source and the skills to do the work yourself. You can alter it, fix it, change it, improve it and release it to the public and be a better developer and take it in a better direction, if you choose. The egos of the developers of some open source projects is daring you to do it, and they frequently, openly suggest it.

Not all freeware/opensource software is crap and not all of the developers working on the projects have ego problems.

I’ll give you Snagit as an example. I am sure most people are familiar with that payware screen capture utility. It is supposedly one of the best. But they have added hardly any features worth paying an upgrade fee to get since v5, and mainly just made it look flashier with eye candy and made it much slower. But they release “new” versions to keep people paying.

Compare that to the freeware/donationware alternative called Screenshot Capture from DonationCoder.com. It’s packed with features and keeps getting better with each new version. It’s a real power user’s screen capture utility and the developer listens to the users and doesn’t have an ego problem at all. He bends over backwards to make the users happy. One single complaint and he is on it like white on rice, fixing the problem. This is one of the reasons why it’s so good. (How many complaints would it take for Snagit, and would you have to pay for the next version to get the fixes?)

If the GIMP had developers like him working on the project, it would be far superior to Photoshop within a few years. If any developer(s) that care, wants grab the source and take up that challenge, we’d all welcome it. Or just join the project and get to work.

And this is what makes open source so great. You can do that if you want. Something you can’t do with Corel’s Paintshop Pro, which is getting worse with each new release, ever since Corel bought out Jasc. There is no hope of that ever coming anywhere near close to Photoshop, and it’s payware.

And even if you are not a coder, there is things you can do to help make open source software better. Spend some time reading the help files and contribute to fixing mistakes, grammar errors, misspellings, making ambiguities clearer, translating into another language, if you can.

Pitch in on the forums and help other users that need questions answered that you know the answers to.

This will go very far towards helping the developers spend less time on those issues and more time coding, and they will probably listen to you more if you have been helping the project out, rather than just making complaints and demanding features.

Wow great commen App!! I love where you are coming from. This comment is already brewing a new blogpost in my head! Keep it up

@app

You said thief, not me. Cool your tool. My point wasn’t aimed at anyone in particular. I was my feeling that people who use software but don’t seem to think it’s worth paying for are using any excuse in the book to justify an action that they, in reality, know is wrong.

I always find it interesting how the same folks who wouldn’t think of stealing a toaster, shampoo, groceries, tools or cars etc. because they think they’re overpriced, don’t think there is anything wrong with stealing software for the same reason. No matter what reason or excuse anyone can make, if you use it but did not pay for it, you stole it, period.

Jim, sharing is not the same as stealing. Stealing is taking the original while sharing is copying the original. As technology evolves so should our vocabulary. Piracy is stealing, and on the high seas at that. At worst you can call file sharing a crime. Calling it piracy is just an ad hominem.

So what you are saying is if I sit for months writing a piece of software, get it on store shelves, it’s okay for two (or many more) people to be using it when I only made one sale? Somehow that’s going to be a little hard to take when the bills come rolling in each month and I depend on the royalties and/or profits made for each product sold. And I don’t call it piracy, I call it stealing and theft.

I made no mention of the morality of it, but if you want it I’ll share it. Just because you put something on the market doesn’t mean you have the right for it to be profitable. Your only real rights, ie non govt ones, are your property rights. If someone steals they should pay restitution. If someone buys my product and then puts it on the internet, or shares it with their friends, I might be upset, but as soon they bought the product it became theirs, and theirs to use. Yes, it’s unfortunate that govt has stepped in and gotten people use to rights they shouldn’t have, but the reality is that IP is a govt enforced monopoly rule, not a true market one.
Yes, you’re right, you didn’t refer to it as piracy. Though stealing and theft is still inaccurate, maybe not the latter if you believe in IP.

@Jim

An author that spends years of his life writing a book, and I buy it, then read it and loan it to a friend, is in the same boat as what you described, But there is nothing wrong with letting someone borrow a book, and it’s perfectly legal.

Why does the same become a crime when it’s an ebook or an application?

Is is to do with how many can read a single printed book at the same time vs. how many can read a digital book? And how many can use the same application at the same time?

If that be the case, why can you not run a copy of Windows on one pc, shut it down and then move to your other PC in another room and use the same copy of windows there, legally? If it is only being used on a single computer at a time, then you should be able to install it on any number of computers you want, as long as only one runs at a time.

But that isn’t how the software is sold. They don’t allow you to do that. They won’t even let you run it on the same computer after replacing your motherboard, without their permission.

Getting permission from some company to use their product that you paid for, is insane….even more insane to have to jump through hoops and get that permission repeatedly…and often being denied the right to use what you paid for.

After buying a cheeseburger at McDonalds, do you have to get their permission to eat it? Is it illegal to break it in half and eat some now and the rest later? Do you have to get permission again when you want to eat the other half? Do they get to tell you where you can & can’t eat it? Do they get to tell you that only you can eat it, and you are not allowed to share it or give it away to someone else? Do they get to tell you whether or not you are allowed to pick the seseme seeds off the top? Do they have a right at all?

Why then do software companies have that right?

As a software developer, I do not understand how I could have the right to tell you that you can only use my product on one computer and if your computer dies, you have to buy my software again if you want to run it on your new computer.

I do not understand how I could have the right to tell you that you can only use my product with a single user account on your computer and if you reboot into another user account, you have to pay me again to be able to use it there too.

I do not understand how I could have the right to tell someone they only have the right to use my product on their desktop at home, or on their laptop while traveling, but not both.

I do not understand how I could have the right to say that one person can use my product on your computer but nobody else that lives with you can use it on your computer without paying me more for each person.

I do not understand how I could have the right to say that if your copy becomes corrupted and you don’t have access to the original installation file that nobody can give you even one single file from their copy to get yours working again.

I do not understand how I have the right to tell someone with an old slow computer that could run an older version of my software but not the latest, that even if they pay for it 100 times over, they can not have an older copy they can run, even if they can find the setup file for it or downloaded a copy 10 years ago and had it sitting on their hard drive all this time without installing it.

I don’t understand why I have the right to tell people that if they buy my product, they are only allowed to use it for as long as my company exists, or as long as I live. If I die or go out of business, they can’t use what they paid for any more.

And why do I have the right to let people know stuff like this after they pay and not before, and not issue a refund if they don’t like all the miles of fine print they are not allowed to read till after they pay, take it home, remove it from the package, pop it into their computer, and click install.exe? If they don’t like it, they can exchange it for another copy of the same thing, but they can’t have a refund. And if it won’t run on their computer and it is the fault of the software or operating system (not defective media), same thing…exchange for same title only….and you are not allowed to sell it to someone else to get your money back.

As a developer, why do I have these crazy rights?

I don’t think most software houses would mind sharing if it wasn’t for all the people who just plain steal copies of the program. At least with sharing (still in my mind not an ideal situation) a sale is made. In the other case hundreds or more copies are out there with no profit seen except for the guy selling it out of his trunk in the mall parking lot.

@app: Hear hear!
@Jim: So you don’t mind the business practice of punishing legit customers because of some bad apples? Also, stealing and sharing will most likely always be a part of culture, it has so far.

I don’t like copy protection practices any more than anyone else but it, for the foreseeable future, is a necessary evil.

I got to thinking about what you posted about books. It’s true you can lend or give a book to whom you wish and it’s legal but that book was most likely purchased and the owner got his due. One book. I can buy a computer game and sell or give it to someone as long as I no longer have it on my machine. Their due, one game. Legal. Now copying books would not be practical but copying software is. So, for example, you have one copy of that book but five hundred copies of that game. Not the same thing.

Although it is still illegal under copyright law to lend a book. And how is DRM necessary? Originally stuff like CD keys were reasonable, and they’re still used reasonably for online account registrations. But with something like securom, to use the spore example, all that happens is that they can’t access the online content, something which could be achieved by just having one account per key. Still a risk of giving someone the username and password, but it hasn’t proved to be a major issue with steam.

Why is it a necessary evil?
Sharing is still sharing whether it’s a book or software. The degrees seem a moot point to me.

Like I said, not if you depend on sales to pay your bills. Why is it people just don’t want to pay for what they use??

So you believe that if companies make a product they deserve sales/profit?
I sort of see where you might be coming from but you’re not making it all that clear.

@ Matt
Like I said before, if a program is worth using, it’s worth buying or don’t use it. If they sell 500 copies of a game but there are 2000 copies out there being played that’s 1500 games they did not get payed for. And those numbers are very conservative as to what really happens many times. I think any of us would be a little bit ticked off if those were our sales/profits we were losing.

If you invented a machine that could perfectly clone products you purchased off the shelf and then sell them, just how long would that last before you got a knock on your door? Not exactly the same, but you get the idea

I suppose where we disagree is that I don’t think people (necessarily) have a right to a profit on something that’s not their property.
There are many instances where I’d disagree with your first sentence. In most cases I, and other consumers, like to try before we buy to be certain of quality, whether we’d like the product enough to buy, or stability. Sometimes products don’t have demos so ‘we’ have to improvise.
Yes, products do get shared a lot, but most likely the higher the share ratio the better and more profitable the product is anyway. Finally, a shared product doesn’t mean a lost sale. That might be the case but so could, try before buy, wants entertainment but is strapped for cash, would buy but the shared version is better (no drm), etc.

Next time I want a new car and am strapped for cash I’ll ask the dealer to “share” one with me. And I don’t have a problem with try before buy but if you intend to keep using it pay for it!
Last post, I said what I believe is right. Bye.

I enjoyed the conversation and I hope you come to separate stealing from sharing. I do not believe force is legitimate or right.
Take care.

You take care yourself. I too enjoyed it. Open discussion is what makes it all worth while.

How is it illegal to lend a book? Isn’t that what libraries do?

You have never borrowed a car from anyone? How about when you were learning to drive? Did you borrow your parent’s car?

Have you ever let anyone borrow your car?

It’s not illegal to share a car. People do it all the time.

My mistake on that count, I misread the statement in the front… It was actually saying you’re not allowed the switch the cover but I got confused on all the terms they threw in.

While it’s not as significant as with books, DVDs can’t legally be lent. At least in Australia anyway.

What does DRM have to do with stopping piracy? It’s tricks the programmers pull in the game that cause problems when cracked, like in mass effect, that discourage someone from pirating something more than and third party DRM.

The bit about the car…umm that was a joke. Never mind.

Look for Microsoft Office Blue Edition or Blue Enterprise. Blue is the one microsoft uses for their own offices which means no key codes or authorization/authentication needed just install and its 100% valid.

[...] an earlier article we established that piracy of software is basically a given in today’s world where [...]

Now that’s a naturally false statement Jacob.

To say that putting something out for sale at 1/2 price would make them more money is assuming that price alone would bring about double the sales. That only works if there were more people pirating the software then there are actually purchasing it.

Even then, though, you have to take into account the fact that not all of the pirates would be buying it too, so they still wouldn’t get the double you’re talking about.

My view is that all software is is a sequence of 1s and 0s that are arranged on a readable device. When I purchase a piece of software, I transfer the 1s and 0s from the disk that I purchased to the magnetic platters in my hard drive. I also purchased the hard drive. So why can’t I make modifications to the sequence of 1s and 0s I purchased on the hard drive I purchased? I think I should be able to. That’s why I like X-Plane’s EULA: “You can do anything you want with this as long as you don’t copy it, save for 1 backup copy” (or something similar to that). If I buy a sequence of 1s and 0s, I want to be able to modify it however I want.

The bus/train/plane company isn’t losing money if you take a ride without paying, as the bus is going to it’s destiny anyway.

The stadium/movies/theater/circus isn’t losing money if you watch them without paying.

The school/university/course isn’t losing money if you watch classes without paying.

Become honest, you moron. You don’t lose money if you don’t get paid for your job, but I bet you won’t like if you do a service and hear that stupid philosophy from the “customer”.

should i call you a moron too, since you don’t the difference between “its” and “it’s” nor know the difference between “destiny” or a “destination”?

although some are clever, you examples really haven’t invalidated my point. all you did was resort to name calling and passing moral judgement, which is really just an opinion anyway.

and lastly, that argument about the “customer” is lame; you need to rethink that. either you are saying i’m selling him widgets that he doesn’t want and now i complain because i didn’t get paid (duh), or the more logical, he DID want my services and now he doesn’t want to pay. neither of which really relate to anything i’ve said.

so are you really standing up on your honesty-soapbox telling us all you never dishonestly downloaded commercial software or an mp3, nor have you burned a audio/data CD for a friend, nor have you ever dubbed an audio tape for anyone? ever? if so, you are a saint, and i dunno… good for you.

nope, not saying that at all. i have a very extensive music and movie collection, all bought and paid for. if i like an artists work enough, yes, i will buy it. as far as digital music goes, i would absolutely prefer to listen to CD quality, rather than mp3 quality. i even paid for my awesome steam games! =)

my point is simple. with regards to photoshop, as that seems to be the token example, i have no need for such a powerful graphic application. spending several hundred dollars on a product that i’d probably just use to draw fancy mustaches on my friends, or perhaps give them a cape, really doesn’t make sense to me. there’s no need to support the cause for buying… i just wouldn’t buy it.

however, but if i was able to get that app for free, yea, i would get it. if that makes me a bad person, i’m fine with that. besides, the gimp makes killer mustaches and capes too.

I know the difference. Sometimes foreign people get confused with cognates, that’s all. But, go ahead and call me. That won’t make you honest or less of a moron.

Fortunately not everyone is like you. Some people still pay for what they should and artists can still continue their work. And morons like you can still get them for free. Doesn’t matter if someone is losing somewhere else, right?

[...] was forced for the first time to pay for DRM’d music when, in order to purchase presale tickets to a Ben Folds concert, I was required to buy his new [...]

[...] might have already read Ian’s first blog on Royal HeHe2-ness, the widely popular “Why DRM Should be Kicked to The Curb“. Personally I enjoy reading his articles, I hope you do to! AKPC_IDS += [...]